oooooo lovely! are you going to have some of the machines for sale? curious. i'd be interested in a couple of 6100s

Yeah. I have been starting with the 61xx machines. Trying to do a "reverse debt snowball" approach where I'm tacking the machines I have the most of first. So far I think I have about 8 working logic boards, cleaned and recapped. I believe I have enough working power supplies for all the machines. I'm thinking I'll get them working, and offer them for pretty cheap. The biggest challenge is there were zero HDI-45 adapters in the lot, so I only have the one I already had. I'm looking into whether I can spearhead an effort to make a new adapter. The biggest challenge is that there is no way to get the male HDI-45 connector. I am trying to see if it would be possible to make a PCB to get the pin spacing correct, and then 3d print an enclosure. Both things are likely beyond my abilities of 3D design and PCB design (I have never done either with original designs). But if you don't need an adapter, and are somewhere around Charlotte, NC, I will definitely be offering these up (I don't need a half dozen 61xx machines!).

Also, despite my best efforts at cleaning the cases, these machines seem to be permanently stained, so none will likely be show pieces.

thats odd that they didnt have any HDI45 adapters, lmao. you'd expect to have at least a few with that many 6100s, given that no one really bought the audiovision monitors very much.

>> alectrona6400 said:

thats odd that they didnt have any HDI45 adapters, lmao. you'd expect to have at least a few with that many 6100s, given that no one really bought the audiovision monitors very much. Click to expand...

Yeah, there were marking on them and I assume he picked them up on a pallet in an auction. Cables often get separated from machines. I got a couple working DOS compatible cards, but again, no cables. And the Y cables are expensive and hard to get, so I ended up making some because all the connectors are readily available. But the Mac connector is DB-15, not HDI-45, so you still need that adapter.

One thing I thought odd was that the original Y cables for the DOS compatibility card also had a connector for the Mac that was DB-15. Could the DOS card be used in other machines that had video out other than HDI-45? If no, why make the Y cables require the use of an adapter.

>> Mk.558 said:

I'm more worried about the habitual self-nuking that has happened on two 68040 machines, sometimes within single digit minutes of it being booted. It's made me reconsider BlueSCSI for internal applications. IDK what a tantalum board looks like besides your image. A good image for an electrolyctic is here: https://recapamac.com.au/macintosh-iifx/ That IIfx looks sharp now. It's easy to forget how vast the II/IIx/IIfx is. It is enormous. It's why I like my IIci. Click to expand...

So, I've been running into a stability problem, and I suspect it was the issue is due to the BlueSCSI v1 issue you referenced. I wish I had heard your warning and run into this issue before I ordered components to build 30 BlueSCSI v1s. :cry: Should have listened to you and @JDW. Unfortunately, I can't justify the cost when I plan to sell these at essentially cost ($10 per machine is roughly what I paid, plus $10 in caps,a few dollars in cleaning supplies, and a few hours of work) Plan on selling them for $40-50. Adding a $40 BlueSCSI simply doesn't make sense. The new owners can buy one if they really want.

So I will try to see if any of the original HDs are working and use those when possible. In the meantime, if anyone has older 68k Macs in the Charlotte area, let me know and I can make you up an older BlueSCSI.

Just a couple of updates. First, for anyone that expressed jealousy about this find, I would just like to remind you what I'm dealing with. Here was the collection of mice that was given to me in an equally dirty box:



I was able to get them all separated, and will have to spend some time disassembling and cleaning them.Most of them were the original Apple Desktop Bus Mouse, but there were a handful of the Apple Desktop Bus Mouse IIs. Also, a double buttoned ADB mouse that I need to find a ball and cover for the bottom. Also, not pictured, I did get 3 Apple Macintosh Mouses, (1 with no ball or cover for the bottom). I plan to use the insides of those to put in the 3d printed cases (compliments of @Stephen ) that are in the mail on the way. One printed in clear, and one in black...



I have my completed black 6100/66 with DOS card in all black (still waiting for my JLCPCB order of BlueSCSI v2 to arrive to hopefully have a hard drive solution. I restored the floppy drive and the CD ROM is working. I will try to come back and recap the CD 300i Plus in it, but I've got to start clearing out some of these machines because the clutter is driving me crazy.

[Image: IMG_3624.jpeg][Image: IMG_3625.jpeg][Image: IMG_3626.jpeg]


And I have 5 other fully working, recapped 6100s waiting for me to power through cleaning the top cases (each one takes about 30 minutes of hard scrubbing and cleaning to get to a reasonable state. Many of them have some sort of yellow paint on them for numbers and I have to slowly scrape it away with a scalpel. Some of the stickers come off with heat, but many are not so easy and I have to use Goo-Gone and multiple rounds of scraping to get them off. I will likely not retrobright these as some owners prefer not to, so others can make that choice when they get to their new owners. I also will not be restoring the floppies. I hardly ever use them, so I'll leave that up to the new owners to do. Or, if they really want, I can probable fix one up on demand. I'll be assembling a couple to match the badged DOS Compatibles, which also have CD ROM drives. Unfortunately, of the 7 drives in the 61xx machines, I could only get 3 to work. So I'll have to pull some of those apart and find out what's wrong. 3 of them refuse to open, so I suspect maybe the drive motor is rusted / seized. One opens and closes, and shows on the SCSI bus, but doesn't load a disk. Might be capacitors, so I'll open one up and see how it looks.




Finally, I finished the cleaning a the restoration of the Quadra 650 with the 586 Reply DOS card. It turned out much better than the 6100 I cleaned, and I think it's because the majority of the body is metal, which seems to clean much better, even the nasty rust stain on the one side is almost gone. DOS cards works well, machine runs smoothly and the PSU seem strong. And, side benefit of this machine is that I can use the DOS card without the need for the awful HDI-45 to DB-15 adapter. Anyway, here is a picture of it next to a similar starting condition Centris 650.




If anyone in the Charlotte, NC area is looking for one or more PowerMac 6100s, please let me know. Also, I have some dead SCSI drives ad a few dead power supplies that I'm going to take to recycling, so if anyone wants those, please let me know.

>> wottle said:

Just a couple of updates. First, for anyone that expressed jealousy about this find, I would just like to remind you what I'm dealing with. Here was the collection of mice that was given to me in an equally dirty box: View attachment 19381 I was able to get them all separated, and will have to spend some time disassembling and cleaning them.Most of them were the original Apple Desktop Bus Mouse, but there were a handful of the Apple Desktop Bus Mouse IIs. Also, a double buttoned ADB mouse that I need to find a ball and cover for the bottom. Also, not pictured, I did get 3 Apple Macintosh Mouses, (1 with no ball or cover for the bottom). I plan to use the insides of those to put in the 3d printed cases (compliments of @Stephen ) that are in the mail on the way. One printed in clear, and one in black... View attachment 19382 I have my completed black 6100/66 with DOS card in all black (still waiting for my JLCPCB order of BlueSCSI v2 to arrive to hopefully have a hard drive solution. I restored the floppy drive and the CD ROM is working. I will try to come back and recap the CD 300i Plus in it, but I've got to start clearing out some of these machines because the clutter is driving me crazy. View attachment 19383 View attachment 19384 View attachment 19386 And I have 5 other fully working, recapped 6100s waiting for me to power through cleaning the top cases (each one takes about 30 minutes of hard scrubbing and cleaning to get to a reasonable state. Many of them have some sort of yellow paint on them for numbers and I have to slowly scrape it away with a scalpel. Some of the stickers come off with heat, but many are not so easy and I have to use Goo-Gone and multiple rounds of scraping to get them off. I will likely not retrobright these as some owners prefer not to, so others can make that choice when they get to their new owners. I also will not be restoring the floppies. I hardly ever use them, so I'll leave that up to the new owners to do. Or, if they really want, I can probable fix one up on demand. I'll be assembling a couple to match the badged DOS Compatibles, which also have CD ROM drives. Unfortunately, of the 7 drives in the 61xx machines, I could only get 3 to work. So I'll have to pull some of those apart and find out what's wrong. 3 of them refuse to open, so I suspect maybe the drive motor is rusted / seized. One opens and closes, and shows on the SCSI bus, but doesn't load a disk. Might be capacitors, so I'll open one up and see how it looks. View attachment 19387 Finally, I finished the cleaning a the restoration of the Quadra 650 with the 586 Reply DOS card. It turned out much better than the 6100 I cleaned, and I think it's because the majority of the body is metal, which seems to clean much better, even the nasty rust stain on the one side is almost gone. DOS cards works well, machine runs smoothly and the PSU seem strong. And, side benefit of this machine is that I can use the DOS card without the need for the awful HDI-45 to DB-15 adapter. Anyway, here is a picture of it next to a similar starting condition Centris 650. View attachment 19389 If anyone in the Charlotte, NC area is looking for one or more PowerMac 6100s, please let me know. Also, I have some dead SCSI drives ad a few dead power supplies that I'm going to take to recycling, so if anyone wants those, please let me know. Click to expand...

That is definitely a Rat King of mice!

Dead SCSI drives. If the same/similar models, have you tried swapping controller cards on the drives? You can also try the Bake or Freeze method to try to get stuck heads loose.

>> phunguss said:

That is definitely a Rat King of mice! Dead SCSI drives. If the same/similar models, have you tried swapping controller cards on the drives? You can also try the Bake or Freeze method to try to get stuck heads loose. Click to expand...

That does work, btw. Resurrected a 230 that was acting like the heads had crashed by swapping another drive's board to it. Also did the same with a 52MB drive that wouldn't spin up. Got it functioning properly and ready for a few more years of use.

>> wottle said:

So, I've been running into a stability problem, and I suspect it was the issue is due to the BlueSCSI v1 issue you referenced. I wish I had heard your warning and run into this issue before I ordered components to build 30 BlueSCSI v1s. Should have listened to you and @JDW . Unfortunately, I can't justify the cost when I plan to sell these at essentially cost ($10 per machine is roughly what I paid, plus $10 in caps,a few dollars in cleaning supplies, and a few hours of work) Plan on selling them for $40-50. Adding a $40 BlueSCSI simply doesn't make sense. The new owners can buy one if they really want. So I will try to see if any of the original HDs are working and use those when possible. In the meantime, if anyone has older 68k Macs in the Charlotte area, let me know and I can make you up an older BlueSCSI. Click to expand...

gaaaaah

Mine is a V2 external model. It's been extremely handy with dealing with some machines for the final stretch of real hardware testing for the CMN 4.0 release. I found about the self-nuking principle in a rather uncomfortable scenario, bit of a long story. But it's been great for fooling around with A/UX, all the operating system snafu that was going on with OS X Server and Rhapsody 5.6.

So far I think it only happens on 68040 boxes. It's been just fine on a LC II, SE/30, Macintosh Server G3 and a IIci. It was sketchy on a Quadra 610 DOS Compatible and a Quadra 650. I'm also not sure how exactly to pull up the live log off the USB connection, the instructions are very vague.

Seen a number of people have their location in/around Charlotte NC area. Is that some kind of ... really nice place?

>> JDW said:

I've seen so many bad designs, even from Apple, using under-rated SOLID tantalum. Click to expand...

The 50% over rating requirement wasn't realised until later. The reason they're not just called 8V parts or physically better rated is for continuity from before they realised they'd under rated them due to in the wild failures. Apple followed the guidance that was available at the time, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it isn't fair to call design from before revised specifications "bad".

Its a bit silly that they just don't draw a line in the sand and start making 16v parts that can handle 12v (or perhaps, you know, 16v).

I believe the specific cap on the IIfx being discussed here isn't actually on a 12v rail, but seems to be under more stress than usual due to other reasons, I think someone said to do with transients? No real idea, I don't own a IIfx.

>> Trash80toG4 said:

All my MAXELL pulls are in this cork stoppered glass bottle. Been waiting well over five years for the first one to 'splode. Hoping it'll set off a chain reaction in the containment. View attachment 18997 BTW, LOVE what you did with that fx board, fabulous! Click to expand...

Oh, if you want them to fail, you might need to put a load resistor on them. Sat in a jar they're less likely to do anything.

>> wottle said:

Machine number 2 fully working. I took one of the dirtiest, but otherwise in good shape 6100s, recapped the logic board, cleaned it up and put in one of the DOS Compatible cards. Since no amount of cleaning and scrubbing seemed to get these cases clean, I decided to turn it into a black Mac, matching my Macintosh TV, Performa 5400, and black PowerMac G3 All-in-One. Pained the case, the feet, the back plate, and the CD ROM drive cover. Printed some replacement labels for the front and reinstalled it with a working floppy, working Apple CD 300i, and a newly created BlueSCSI v1. Working pretty well so far. And I think it looks pretty good. Certainly better than the original, even after cleaning. View attachment 19211 View attachment 19207 View attachment 19210 Click to expand...

That's a lovely job, did you do a thread about the build anywhere? Sorry if I missed it.

>> wottle said:

Finally, I finished the cleaning a the restoration of the Quadra 650 with the 586 Reply DOS card. It turned out much better than the 6100 I cleaned, and I think it's because the majority of the body is metal, which seems to clean much better, even the nasty rust stain on the one side is almost gone. DOS cards works well, machine runs smoothly and the PSU seem strong. And, side benefit of this machine is that I can use the DOS card without the need for the awful HDI-45 to DB-15 adapter. Anyway, here is a picture of it next to a similar starting condition Centris 650. Click to expand...

That has also come up amazingly well.

The 650 is the best 68k Mac in my opinion. Stable 40MHz overclocks are trivial by adding one or two SMD resistors and two jumper headers. Its really easy to do. Best thing is you can switch between 33 and 40MHz by just adding or removing the jumpers from headers, without even needing to remove the mezzanine or anything.

>> phipli said:

Oh, if you want them to fail, you might need to put a load resistor on them. Sat in a jar they're less likely to do anything. Click to expand...

Thanks! Got a value I should use? Soldering them on should make the jumble more interesting for the final countdown. Will randomly cris-crossed leads be helpful for the final countdown?

Edit: just looked at the pic I posted. I think I'll make an nice stand to hold the bottle horizontally. Rhymes with "Ship in a Bottle!" :p

>> Trash80toG4 said:

Thanks! Got a value I should use? Soldering them on should make the jumble more interesting for the final countdown. Will randomly cris-crossed leads be helpful for the final countdown? Click to expand...

I mean, if you want it to happen fairly quickly, 27 Ohm would motivate them with about 100mA @ 3v. I'd probably use 68 Ohm though for 50mA @ 3V. It will just finish flattening them.

You could just put a blue or white LED on them though, that would give you a visual indication (don't use other colours unless the batteries are already under 2V).

LEDs are a great ides, thanks! :D

>> phipli said:

That's a lovely job, did you do a thread about the build anywhere? Sorry if I missed it. Click to expand...

The G3 AIO? I did post about it here: https://tinkerdifferent.com/threads...-asked-for-powermac-g3-all-in-one-molar.3189/

>> phipli said:

That has also come up amazingly well. The 650 is the best 68k Mac in my opinion. Stable 40MHz overclocks are trivial by adding one or two SMD resistors and two jumper headers. Its really easy to do. Best thing is you can switch between 33 and 40MHz by just adding or removing the jumpers from headers, without even needing to remove the mezzanine or anything. Click to expand...

Yeah, once I get all these machines sorted, I'm going to have to decide which to keep (and which of my existing machines I need to pass along. I will potentially have a 6115CD, Quadra 650, the black 6100, and I'm considering throwing one of the DOS cards I got into my Quadra 700. And that would still leave me with 3 additional 6100s with DOS cards. I rarely use DOS and really only like it because I always thought it would be awesome to have back when they were new and my friends had DOS / Windows software I couldn't run. So, I'll be selling all the 6100s except the black one, and maybe the 6115. I think the Q650, the Q700, and the black 6100 would be the best to keep.

>> wottle said:

The G3 AIO? I did post about it here: Click to expand...

The black 6100 :)

>> wottle said:

I'm considering throwing one of the DOS cards I got into my Quadra 700 Click to expand...

Just to warn you, I believe they clash with the lid, so people have to do a bit of hacking, plus you need an extension like the one you have in the 650.

At least, that's what it says on Jagshouse.

>> phipli said:

The black 6100 Click to expand...

Ah, sadly no, just a footnote in this post. Used the same paint as the G3 all-in-one. I've not done a great job documenting because I'm a bit overwhelmed with projects at the moment. Spending lots of time trying to build a video out solution for the 6100s so their new owners don't have to spend a bunch of money on those HDI-45 adapters. It's coming along slowly, but my lack of any experience building PCBs has eaten up a lot of my time as I've been building a solution. Got some PCBs on the way, as well as the appropriate HD-15 ports for VGA output. Now trying to tweak the solution so that it will hopefully work for the 8100 and 7100 machines as well.

>> phipli said:

Just to warn you, I believe they clash with the lid, so people have to do a bit of hacking, plus you need an extension like the one you have in the 650. At least, that's what it says on Jagshouse. Click to expand...

I had seen that. From what I've heard, it may be due to the attempted use of the CD-audio out connector (which the Q700 doesn't have input for, so maybe they wired it to the audio in jack? Maybe later today I'll try throwing it into the Q700 to do a test fit. Also, it could be dependent on whether you have the DOS card's RAM slot populated, as it sticks upward at an angle. As you can see with my Reply card, the RAM extends past the top of the board.

I do have the extension board in my Q650. I may look to build a couple of the expansion PCBs. Although it concerns me that it looks like the design was never updated to address the interference issue, and I don't relish the idea of wrapping it in aluminum foil inside the case...

[Image: IMG_3305.jpeg]

The Apple Card has audio headers that do stick up past the top of the board, but not the bracket.

[Image: IMG_6786.jpeg]

>> wottle said:

As you can see with my Reply card, the RAM extends past the top of the board. Click to expand...

When things are a bit less hectic, could you run some of the Phil's computer Lab benchmarks? I can probably dig out a pre-made image for you if needed (but I think someone already has on Mac Garden - I'll take a look and edit this post).

I'm curious how the 5x86 compares to the 100MHz Intel. I'm also curious what cache etc. it has.

Edit - Download 1 here includes Phil's Computer Lab :

>> phipli said:

When things are a bit less hectic, could you run some of the Phil's computer Lab benchmarks? I can probably dig out a pre-made image for you if needed (but I think someone already has on Mac Garden - I'll take a look and edit this post). I'm curious how the 5x86 compares to the 100MHz Intel. I'm also curious what cache etc. it has. Edit - Download 1 here includes Phil's Computer Lab : https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/apple-dos-compatibility-card-houdini-iii-ms-dos-622-image Click to expand...

Added to my To-Do list!

>> wottle said:

Added to my To-Do list! Click to expand...

:) Good luck