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Identifying and confirming fake 68040 CPUs (especially the L88M mask)

Forums > Vintage Apple > Macintosh > Macintosh Quadra & Centris

Kai Robinson
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May 17, 2022 - #41
>> rikerjoe said:
I bought the 68040 below from Eric Woo last summer for my Mystic CC. I've overclocked it to 40 MHz with no issues I've seen so far, with plans to push it even further in a few weeks. View attachment 5035 Click to expand...

Eric Woo is the rose amongst the thorns - all legit pulls, never remarked!

Liked by C128 Guy,Gazmassive,JDWand 2 others

Mr. Fahrenheit
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May 17, 2022 - #42

For reference:

Mask revisions of the 68040 variant

Note: The table only applies to the full 68040, there are other masks for the EC and LC variants!
maskYearproductionXC/MC
D43B19890.8µmxc
D50D19890.8µmxc
D98D19890.8µmxc
E31F19890.8µmxc
E26A1992-19950.65µmxc
E42K19950.65µmMC
K63H20000.57µmMC
L88M20020.57µmMC
packageSocketmaskYearstructure sizeXC/MC
Quad Flat PackageQFP1840.5µmMC68040FE25V
Quad Flat PackageQFP1840.5µmMC68040FE33V
Quad Flat PackageQFP1840.5µmMC68040FE40V
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17902E42K19950.65µmMC68040RC33, MC68040RC25
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17903F54F0.5µmMC68040RC25V
Pin Grid ArrayPGA179?0.5µmMC68040RC33V
Pin Grid ArrayPGA179?0.65µmMC68040RC40
Pin Grid ArrayPGA179?0.5µmMC68040RC40V
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17920D43B19890.8µmXC68040RC25
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17926D43BXC68040RC25
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17904D50D19890.8µmXC68040RC25A
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17909D50DXC68040RC25B
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17902E31F19890.8µmXC68040RC25M
Pin Grid ArrayPGA179XC68040RC33
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17905D98D19890.8µmXC68040RC33E
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17905O98DXC68040RC33E
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17907D98D19890.8µmXC68040RC33E
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17900E31F19890.8µmXC68040RC33M
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17902E31F19890.8µmXC68040RC33M
Pin Grid ArrayPGA179XC68040RC40
Pin Grid ArrayPGA17902E31F19890.8µmXC68040RC40M

Liked by -SE40-,bakkus,JDWand 1 other person

bakkus
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May 18, 2022 - #43
Fantastic!
Could this table be placed as an article under Resources as well?

Mr. Fahrenheit
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May 18, 2022 - #44
>> bakkus said:
Fantastic! Could this table be placed as an article under Resources as well? Click to expand...
I'm still curating this information. It's not complete yet.

JDW
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May 18, 2022 - #45
>> Mr. Fahrenheit said:
I'm still curating this information. It's not complete yet. Click to expand...
If you like, you can do a copy/paste of your excellent table content as an Article (if some folks would find that more helpful), because unlike a certain other forum which shall not be named, you can Edit posts here on TinkerDifferent. [face-with-party-horn] "Articles" in the "Resources" section are especially made for edits and updates, and here's one example of an Article which has been updated by its author. Anyone should be able to do those edits/updates without any special mod or admin privileges.

At some point, nobody will be able to acquire fast 40MHz rated 040 CPUs anymore, and we will need a modern replacement to enjoy overclocking. I've long read about the PiStorm project which replaces a 68000 CPU, but even to this day, it doesn't work in a Mac. But just imagine a full 68040 with FPU modern equivalent that could be overlocked to 50MHz and higher without any heatsink or fan. One can dream, right? [nerd-face]

Liked by johnsnandGazmassive

Gazmassive
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May 27, 2022 - #46
So the last Eric Woo chip has just arrived. I've attached photos of the altered chip and the new one. Also are both underneath shots.
The markings on the new chip are almost impossible to see, but its just only cleaned and not re-masked. I'm also not sure of what the H in the XC68040HRC40M is in reference to.

If anybody has a some more tests besides MacBench to run, please let me know.
Have a good one!

PS (excuse the dirty hands, being a diesel mechanic has its downsides)


Attachments:
PXL_20220527_104632707.jpg [View]
PXL_20220527_104646782.jpg [View]
PXL_20220527_104949606.jpg [View]
PXL_20220527_104931410.jpg [View]

Liked by JDW

Mr. Fahrenheit
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May 28, 2022 - #47
>> Gazmassive said:
So the last Eric Woo chip has just arrived. I've attached photos of the altered chip and the new one. Also are both underneath shots. The markings on the new chip are almost impossible to see, but its just only cleaned and not re-masked. I'm also not sure of what the H in the XC68040 H RC40M is in reference to. If anybody has a some more tests besides MacBench to run, please let me know. Have a good one! PS (excuse the dirty hands, being a diesel mechanic has its downsides) View attachment 5293 View attachment 5294 View attachment 5295 View attachment 5296 Click to expand...
HRC is supposed to indicate that the chip was binned for producing less heat.

I do not know how accurate that is.

Liked by JDW

Kai Robinson
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Jun 3, 2022 - #48
Another good source of genuine pull 040's: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363493164879

Had good luck with them. K63H mask, too.

Liked by YMK

JDW
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Jun 4, 2022 - #49
>> Kai Robinson said:
Another good source of genuine pull 040's: https://www.ebay.com/itm/363493164879 Had good luck with them. K63H mask, too. Click to expand...
Another seller from China too, I see. Interesting how all the sellers who have genuine pulls are based in China. I guess that means nobody outside China pulls and sells 040 CPUs?

C128 Guy
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Aug 9, 2022 - #50
I've recently purchased a number of 040's and 060's from Ebay seller Eric Woo's Rare Chips. Had quite a few conversations with him as well about fake chips. He's been vey honest with me and everything is as promised. 6 chips total from there (2 x rev6 060).

Eric tells me there are ZERO legit L88M's @ 40mhz remaining anywhere in China unless more equipment with them gets scrapped. He confirmed any of the 40mhz chips listed currently are fake.

MTXStore refunded 100% of my money instantly, they know what they are doing. It was my first 040 purchase I thought I would gamble on. Looked fake in the pics, was certainly fake when it arrived. I suspect it is a E31F, and will have it x-rayed soon to report back. Won't know what mhz it was rated for but at least can check the package.

Liked by JDWandretr01

Kai Robinson
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Aug 9, 2022 - #51
>> C128 Guy said:
I've recently purchased a number of 040's and 060's from Ebay seller Eric Woo's Rare Chips. Had quite a few conversations with him as well about fake chips. He's been vey honest with me and everything is as promised. 6 chips total from there (2 x rev6 060). Eric tells me there are ZERO legit L88M's @ 40mhz remaining anywhere in China unless more equipment with them gets scrapped. He confirmed any of the 40mhz chips listed currently are fake. MTXStore refunded 100% of my money instantly, they know what they are doing. It was my first 040 purchase I thought I would gamble on. Looked fake in the pics, was certainly fake when it arrived. I suspect it is a E31F, and will have it x-rayed soon to report back. Won't know what mhz it was rated for but at least can check the package. Click to expand...

L88M's might be the pinnacle, but the K63H's are good - maybe he has some of them? Also E42K RC33's would be a decent buy.

C128 Guy
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Aug 9, 2022 - #52
He did have some L88M / 25 mhz.

C128 Guy
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Aug 9, 2022 - #53
Think these are real?

MC68040RC33 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MC68040RC33 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.ca
Attachments:
www.ebay.ca [View]

retr01
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Aug 9, 2022 - #54
>> C128 Guy said:
Think these are real? MC68040RC33 | eBay Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for MC68040RC33 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products! www.ebay.ca Click to expand...

Nope. A glance at the seller's rating and the photo combined with my gut screams fakery. [face-with-monocle]

Why would a 68040 look like this on the top? Very different from what I've seen on Mac mobos and accelerators.



Attachments:
www.ebay.ca [View]
1660072506727.png [View]

C128 Guy
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Aug 9, 2022 - #55
Who wants to gamble $100? :)

Mr. Fahrenheit
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Aug 10, 2022 - #56
>> C128 Guy said:
Who wants to gamble $100? Click to expand...

If it were $50, I would. $100 is a bit much for this in my opinion. Especially for an unknown.

I think there's a danger that some of these remarking fraudsters could be reading up on what mistakes they're making with regards to the fakes, and remarking them to remove the errors they've had in the past.

Although the danger of that on a 33mhz chip is likely lower than the unicorn 40mhz chips.

The -101 matches the E42K and the date code of 1999 coincides with that mask and the style of print.

I would say it's a toss up whether it's legitimate or not. However, who would have trays of pristine 68040 chips ready to sell from China? All identical.... [thinking]

Liked by JDW

C128 Guy
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Aug 11, 2022 - #57
Eric Woo confirms no 33mhz chips left either. He's response was even 25mhz are getting rare now and he hasn't bought any in over a month. We are nearing the end guys....

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JDW
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Aug 11, 2022 - #58
>> C128 Guy said:
We are nearing the end guys.... Click to expand...

Mr. Fahrenheit
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Aug 12, 2022 - #59
>> C128 Guy said:
Eric Woo confirms no 33mhz chips left either. He's response was even 25mhz are getting rare now and he hasn't bought any in over a month. We are nearing the end guys.... Click to expand...

I wonder how many were bought up by Mac users, and how many were for Amigas.

The 40mhz variant will likely be the rarest of all of the 68040 chips.


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C128 Guy
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Aug 15, 2022 - #60
Eric Woo has 3 x E42K 33mhz chips he is about to release on Ebay.

Attachments:
1660573165164.png [View]

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